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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can absolutely see the benefits of inverter and variable refrigerant flow technology for office buildings and institutional applications, but is it ever going to be worth the cost for residential use?

Is the Westinghouse 23 SEER system selling anywhere? I mean really, does 23 SEER really benefit even the hottest of regions at the current additional cost of the system?

I want to sell Sanyo Eco-I systems for applications that they will be beneficial, but the cost factor is just too great to be practical. Anyone running into this yet?
 

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Nordyne built that 23 SEER to prove they are a player in this industry.

Like you said all inverter stuff makes sense in commercial buildings where every penny saved adds to a bottom line, but in a home for the average joe, it makes no sense.

The guys who are buying the 23 Seer stuff are guys who love technology, of which I am one.

I was going to put one in my own home but the branch mgr recommended against it. Found out there were issues nobody was talking about out side the company.

Caught the straight poop on hvac talk. Glad I didn't buy one.

Can you say York Triathlon?:yes:
 

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I don't think it should just be thought of by the SEER rating.
More, by the comfort factor.

Eventually. Copeland will get their modulating scrolls in residential units. And we will see the big push by all companies then. And the price won't be as big of a jump as the Nordyne IQ.
 

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I don't think it should just be thought of by the SEER rating.
More, by the comfort factor.

Eventually. Copeland will get their modulating scrolls in residential units. And we will see the big push by all companies then. And the price won't be as big of a jump as the Nordyne IQ.

Modulating as in variable speed? All I have heard about is the unloading type capacity control and two stage type.

How long have they been using them?


God, I am falling so far behind lately.
 

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They aren't in any residential units yet. They might have gotten someone to try one in a commercial unit I seem to recall.

They have been working on it for a few years now.

And yes, modulating. With a greater turn down ration then the Westinghouse IQ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't think it should just be thought of by the SEER rating.
More, by the comfort factor.

Eventually. Copeland will get their modulating scrolls in residential units. And we will see the big push by all companies then. And the price won't be as big of a jump as the Nordyne IQ.
This is probably true. Once a product is more mass produced, it becomes less expensive.

It would resolve a lot of oversizing issues which could be beneficial for oversizing heat pumps for less need for auxilliary electric heat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The problem with 23 SEER air to air versus ground source heat pumps is in the heating mode. While ground source heat pumps stay fairly stable in capacity, standard air to air heat pumps lose capacity as the OD temps drop, exactly when more capacity is needed.

Tha Acadia heat pump is the only exception to this factor right now, but it is only rated at 14 SEER in the cooling mode.
 

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What is inverter technology?

And Could a 23 SEER unit compete in the ground source market? How efficient are ground sources?
They use a AC to DC inverter and control the frequency of power to the compressor to control its speed.
There by controlling capacity of the compressor.

Many can actually operate at a capacity above nominal rating in a boost mode.

EG: A 2 ton in boost mode running at 26 or 28,000 BTUs to pull temp down quickly.
 

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The problem with 23 SEER air to air versus ground source heat pumps is in the heating mode. While ground source heat pumps stay fairly stable in capacity, standard air to air heat pumps lose capacity as the OD temps drop, exactly when more capacity is needed.

Tha Acadia heat pump is the only exception to this factor right now, but it is only rated at 14 SEER in the cooling mode.
Well the way I understand it, ground source heat pumps can be competitive is to use a hybrid system. That is in conjunction with a small cooling tower in the South and a small hot water heater in the North to cover about half the capacity and then you will only need to dig half the wells and you use your HP for 70 to 80 % of your needs and the back up only in extreme conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well the way I understand it, ground source heat pumps can be competitive is to use a hybrid system. That is in conjunction with a small cooling tower in the South and a small hot water heater in the North to cover about half the capacity and then you will only need to dig half the wells and you use your HP for 70 to 80 % of your needs and the back up only in extreme conditions.
We're discussing the benefits of higher efficiency technology in residential applications.
 

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We're discussing the benefits of higher efficiency technology in residential applications.
Yeah but it works for buildings why wouldn't it work for say a mansion. Only a mansion would look at getting s system like that anyhow. I know someone who has a small chiller in their basement. Naturaly for a mansion but still there are such things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah but it works for buildings why wouldn't it work for say a mansion. Only a mansion would look at getting s system like that anyhow. I know someone who has a small chiller in their basement. Naturaly for a mansion but still there are such things.
I've seen older mansions with chiller systems in them, but not ground source heat pump chillers. I don't see why it wouldn't be feasible for such applications, but I'm referring to standard residential applications.
 

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A rough rule of thumb in my area is about 200 ft of pipe per ton of ac for a ground water system. So you are talking about 1000 ft of pipe for a 5 ton and unless you have lots of available land you go with a series of vertical wells.

Now if you supplement the ground water system with a real small cooling tower that would save you on installation because you could reduce your drilling and laying pipe in half and only when it is real hot do you even need to use the cooling tower. That is what my dealer is telling me. Just wanted to pass this along. It won't work up North because there you have a problem in winter more than summer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
YO! Knighty; another thread on what you are posting would be nice. This thread is about how much new technology is going to be beneficial in the residential market.

Will inverter and variable refrigerant flow systems be worthwhile in the average home? Will solar systems be worthwhile? These sorts of things.
 
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