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Tech./Sales Consultant
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Discussion Starter #1
I see equipment that doesn't require the skills to troubleshoot controls further then counting how many times a light blinks, systems that don't require technical charging techniques and a refrigerant that does not technically require a cfc certification because it is not a cfc. And HVAC company owners think these are good things because now they don't need to worry as much as to how skilled their techs are.

DUH! If an unskilled tech can do it, a skillful DIYer won't have any trouble.

Just how easy should our industry make HVAC equipment to install and is that the real intent of the manufacturers building equipment that requires less technical skills?
 

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I don't think so. There will still be people that refuse to work on their own stuff.

A talented DIYer years ago could still repair their machine better than a marginally skilled trades man. A lot of old farmers could replace a thermocouple just as well as a skilled trades man. Although a tradesman might know why it failed the farmer's guess was just as good.

So a DIYer may guess the ignitor failed and replace it, but may not figure out the drift of snow is what keeping the pressure switch from closing.
 

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Administrator
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DIY has been around longer then any of us have been alive.

Before 92, there was no CFC cert to buy refrigerant.

So we're not headed toward DIY. Just making everything easier for everyone.
Same amount of work(percentage wise) will be done by DIYers as before.
It will just be more noticable because of the internet providing a means of sharing the how to knowledge.
 

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Believe me when I say I’m not a big fan of government regulation, but I personally feel that EPA 608 Universal certification and recovery equipment registration and verification should also be required for all HFC purchases, just as with CFC’s and HCFC’s, especially with the known HFC green house gas status and Global Warming Potential.
I’m really surprised that it isn’t with all of the current “Go Green” and “Save the Planet” talk being thrown around these days.
As of right now, any tard can purchase small cans and even 24LB cylinders of HFC’s in person or online with no real accountability and yet, according to the EPA, I am still required to recover it.
This might also have the added benefit of helping further reduce the instances of untrained DIY tampering with systems.

JM2cents
 

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North of 52
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122 Posts
You need a special license to buy freon in Canada and NO DIYer can get it legally. I believe the manufacturers are making the units somewhat easier to troubleshoot so they get less returned parts under warranty that are perfectly fine. Lennox is very pro-active about that and it saves them $$ in the long run. DIYers will never understand draft issues etc as you need real life experience to understand how combustion and venting REALLY work.
 

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I dont see it getting any simpler. even with diog lights they just give you a direction to start looking not what is wrong with the unit. These higher end systems definetly take a skilled person to set up correctly, or repaire. As Yuri says especially with draft and combustion.
 

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Tech./Sales Consultant
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Discussion Starter #7
Well good. All of these answers make me feel better. I have no problem being wrong as long as it benefits my needs:).
 

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Tech./Sales Consultant
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609 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
You need a special license to buy freon in Canada and NO DIYer can get it legally. I believe the manufacturers are making the units somewhat easier to troubleshoot so they get less returned parts under warranty that are perfectly fine. Lennox is very pro-active about that and it saves them $$ in the long run. DIYers will never understand draft issues etc as you need real life experience to understand how combustion and venting REALLY work.
Freon is a trade name for DuPont refrigerants, so let's just use the generic term refrigerant so we cover all brands.

Is R134a and R410a regulated in Canada the same as R22?
 

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North of 52
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All refrigerants that have a ozone depleting potential are regulated. Not sure about ammonia but it is a specialty field of guys anyway and they have placards on their vehicles same as welders/welding gases.
 

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All a manufacturer has to do is provide precharged sealed linesets and air handler coils. (just like they do with condensers). They could use self piercing connections.

Now "joe six pack" homeowner could buy a split system at Home Crapo or Lowes just like they do with water heaters.

Hook up the electrical and connect self piercing pre-charged lines and the homeowner doesn't even have to touch/adjust refrigerants.

DIY has permeated every other aspect of home ownership.
 

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Over the years. I think almost all manufacturers did that at one time or another.

Coleman still does it on the units designed for MH installation.
But those units could be used for regular homes.
 

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Tech./Sales Consultant
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Discussion Starter #12
Personally, I think the DIY HVAC packages are going to hit the big box stores within the next year. I also predict that within 2 years of DIYers figuring out ways to mess up the installs and more so the applications, that the manufacturer's will once again turn to professional installations for their products.
 

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North of 52
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Would be kind of hard to make a SAFE quick connect fitting for R410 as the high side pressure is 350# and higher. Huge liability issues if Joe DIY blows that O ring and his face off.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Would be kind of hard to make a SAFE quick connect fitting for R410 as the high side pressure is 350# and higher. Huge liability issues if Joe DIY blows that O ring and his face off.
The static pressure of R410a, even at 273.5lbs on a 90 degree day, is not much more of an issue then is the 168.4lbs for R22 under the same conditions. Overcoming the slight differences in pressure between R22 and R410a is not going to be an issue.
 

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North of 52
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122 Posts
But the operating head pressure is 325-375 or higher. To make a quick connect fitting safe enough to hold that pressure and idiot proof is not easy. Joe DIY may have his buddies gauges on and decide to fire er up with his noggin where it shouldn't be and maim himself. Have to build for the worst case scenario and add a safety margin above that.
 

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Tech./Sales Consultant
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Discussion Starter #17
But the operating head pressure is 325-375 or higher. To make a quick connect fitting safe enough to hold that pressure and idiot proof is not easy. Joe DIY may have his buddies gauges on and decide to fire er up with his noggin where it shouldn't be and maim himself. Have to build for the worst case scenario and add a safety margin above that.
What is your source of information that there is a problem in making a quick connect fitting safe or not for R410a?
 

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Lots of Coleman's on MHs end up with grassed clogged condensers. And run 350 head. And those quick connects don't blow.

Any quick connect they make for a R410A system. Will have been tested.


Its not possible, to make everything fool proof.
 

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North of 52
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122 Posts
I was thinking of the potential lawsuits and how overengineered/overlabelled everything is today. All started with the fool who sued McDs for the coffee spill on their lap and McDs not warning them the coffee was hot. Look at all the explosion proof crap a gas water heater has to have now and the $200 increase in price we have to sell it for. Some idiot probably burned his face with a rolled up newspaper lighting the pilot light and sued GSW etc. Pretty soon your kitchen knife will have a label "DO NOT USE INTERNALLY".:gun_bandana:
 
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