ELectrical Problem w/Consolidated Furnace

JiNCs

Hey folks!

I've been working on the following home HVAC unit:
Consolidated Industries
Model MBA 100 NHAR

The problem is with the fan in AC mode. Owner reports it works . . . ocassionally!

Motor has 4 wires; red, blue, yellow and white. It had two 5uf 370vac capacitors connected in parallel to the motor. They were dangling and not under the mount bracket.

I replaced the two older caps with a new 10uf 370ac cap. No good. Found chared, loose slide on wire connector for motor black wire at control board 406650. Tightened connector and the unit started and ran about a day.

Owner reported the next day the same thing. Found motor humming. Spinning fan did not allow fan to continue turning. Free and easy to turn with power off. Replaced wire connector. Same thing. Found notes on papers near unit that make me think problem has happened before and the control board may have been replaced.


At this point for me to proceed further I need electrical schematics. I need to know things like if fan has centrifugal switch (know they are older), is it cap-start/cap run motor. Need to know correct value of cap needed, and wiring diagram showing motor and leads so I can make resistance checks of motor. (Know I can do that a bit without schematic)

As I understand, Consolidated may be out of business and they have had grave problems with safety on some units. There was a class action against them in 2009. Unsure if this unit is effected. Seems in an effort to contol nitros gas emissions, they changed the design and this caused cracks in the igniter and gas would ignite outside the igniter. Some units were recalled in California. Here is a link to the site that has info. (http://www.consolidatedfurnaces.com/)


It would be greatly appreciated if someone could point me to a website that maybe has diagram or a phone number where I can call to get this info. How do service companies get this info!!???



Help is greatly appreciated.
JiNCs

beenthere

We call the distributor, and have them email of fax the diagrams if they have them.

Not to be offending. But you don't sound like your in the HVAC trade.

What your describing is a common problem.

__________________
How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

JiNCs

Thanks beenthere!

Good eye! I am not a HVAC technician.

I have an associates degree in electronicss and an associates degree in computer networking. I was a plant electrician from 1975 till 2003. Since then I have been doing engineering/service/programming for an engineering company and I work on nearly everything.

Not to be offending;
Thanks for pointing out that you get drawings from the manufacturer. I'm not sure they exisit anymore. Would a local HVAC service company be likely to have them? Do I need to be working for an HVAC service company before I am allowed to get these dwgs? If so how does an outsider get them?

Also, with this being a common problem, (I'm sure it is) if I might ask, what is the solution? What do you do after doing what I've already done? Replace the motor/fan assy? Can you share what you think the problem is?


Hoping
JiNCs

JiNCs

beenthere;

change that . . . when you say distributor, you mean the local place you buy them from, not the manufacturer? I'm almost sure the manufacturer no longer exists, but maybe I can determine who used to be the distributor.



JiNCs

beenthere

Yep. The place that supplied the unit to the installing contractor.

__________________
How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

JiNCs

Thanks

JinCs

hvaclover

Guy didn't look very far. Thes

Related Articles | Models Affected | Pictures | Find a Dealer

PREMIER/CONSOLIDATED FURNACES PRESENT A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF FIRE: Latest fire occurred December 25, 2001. Click here to read Orange County Register article.
If you have a house that was built between 1983 and 1995 and the furnace is in the attic, there is a very good chance that Consolidated Industries manufactured this furnace. They were sold through many different brand names but most of the furnaces were manufactured under the Premier and Consolidated labels.
According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission, these furnaces present a substantial risk of fire. As of June 2001, there have been about 50 reports of fires and damage to homes associated with these furnaces as well as failures of burners and heat exchangers that can lead to fires.
BACKGROUND: In 1983, the Southern California Air Quality Board put into effect a regulation on nitrous oxide emissions. Premier/Consolidated Industries produced the least expensive horizontal furnaces that met these requirements. Approximately 190,000 of these furnaces were sold between 1983 and 1994. What Consolidated did to meet the nitrous oxide requirements was equip their furnaces with steel control rods installed above the burners. In some cases these steel rods cause the burners to overheat and crack the burner box, igniting flames outside the furnace and igniting combustible materials outside the furnace.
These furnaces were only produced to meet California's nox-requirements. Furnaces produced for other states were not affected.
WHAT CAN I DO? - You may be entitled to a free furnace from the manufacturer or the company that name-branded the product. Click here for more information.
WHAT IF I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO REPLACE THE FURNACE? Nearly all Major Contractors have financing plans where you can pay as little as 2% of the cost of the furnace and installation per month with no money down. Since the cost of replacing the furnace with a standard efficiency furnace will be between $2000 & $3000 that means your monthly outlay will be only $40 to $60 per month. If you put in a High efficiency furnace your savings in operating cost may be enough to actually make the payment and you may be eligible for a $300.00 rebate from the Gas Company
WHAT SHOULD I DO TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ME IN THE FUTURE? Buy your heating equipment from a well-known, well-financed manufacturer. Make sure that product is actually manufactured by that manufacturer and just not name branded by the manufacturer. (Manufactured by another company, but nameplate or sticker showing the major manufacturer) When purchasing a new home, ask the brand of the heating and air conditioning equipment. If you have never heard of the brand, ask the builder to substitute a well-known, well-financed brand of heating and air conditioning equipment.
Since homeowners are replacing thousands of furnaces it may be several days or even weeks before you will be able to get your furnace inspected. In this case we recommend that you turn the gas off to the furnace at the gas valve, located near the furnace. If you have air conditioning this will allow you to continue to operate the air conditioning system, which uses the the furnace blower, safely. We also recommend that you immediately purchase a smoke detector and put it in the attic close to the furnace. Try the test button with another person in the house to make sure the alarm can be heard in the house especially in the bedrooms.
When you have your furnace replaced make sure you keep the nameplate and the brand label. You may also want to take a photo of the furnace, which includes the nameplate and the brand label. If there is any burn damage to supporting structures you will also want to take a photo of this damage. For certain models you may be entitled to $450.00 or a free furnace and free repair of any burn damage caused by the furnace. Click here for more information.
THE BRIGHT SIDE. Most of the Premier/Consolidated furnaces are over 10 years old and are nearing the end of their useful life. These furnaces compared to today's standard were not very efficient, both in electrical usage and in natural gas usage. There are furnaces that are available today that use only 40% of electrical energy that the Consolidated furnaces use and 20-30% less natural gas. With today's energy prices, the Consolidated furnace is a real energy waster and a new high efficiency furnace can be installed that can easily pay for it's total replacement cost through lower utility bills in 3-4 years.
LICENSED CONTRACTORS. To find a licensed contractor in your area click here.
RELATED ARTICLES - click here for news releases.
PICTURES - click here.


This website is not affiliated with Consolidated Industries

__________________
Not Stupid, Just slow

JiNCs

Thanks hvaclover.

I did see this on the internet. I inserted a link to the main website in my first post. In fact this website and this page is how I found out that the issue came about in California. I also mentioned in my first email that the recalled units were for California. There are photos as well of some of the instances showing what to look for and the damages. In some of the instances, they gave model numbers. I did however miss the part that said, "Furnaces produceded for other states were not affected."


At any rate thanks for pointing out the site, page and the info.



JiNCs